Q: Cadmium lightmediumheavy and hue? - WetCanvas: Online Living for Artists (2025)

Dueck

About to invest in some cadmium red and yellow, and I just want to ask any of you who have used them…
What’s the practical difference between the cadmium colours’ light, medium, and heavy, and is the cadmium hue effectively the same?

Paging Einion

edit: apologizing in advance if I find previous threads on this…

I will like you if you are blunt and objective.

Einion

What’s the practical difference between the cadmium colours’ light, medium, and heavy…

It’s light, medium and deep generally (or dark), not heavy.

…and is the cadmium hue effectively the same?

This is the main difference between various cad reds – Cadmium Red Light or Cadmium Scarlet would generally be an orange-red (very intense usually), Cadmium Red/Cadmium Red Mediums are generally mid-red in hue. The deep versions can vary quite a bit; some are just darker-valued reds but as the hue goes more toward crimson the colour gets darker and duller. Some versions are actually extremely dull and consequently are the least-useful examples of their family IMO.

Einion

Dueck

Ok, so cadmium red light is a lighter value, more intense version of a similar hue? Is this somewhat accurate:
cadmium red light – light value, high chroma
cadmium red medium – darker value, somewhat lower chroma
cadmium red deep – darkest value, lower chroma, possibly hue shift towards crimson?

Is this similar for cadmium yellow? And by “hue” I had always assumed that it was a similar hue to cadmium red, but using different, non-toxic pigment. Or not pure pigment. Or something like that.

If hue is effectively the same as the real thing, I’d rather use that, ’cause I’m cheap :P

I will like you if you are blunt and objective.

LordScorpius

Cadmium “Light” or “Lemon” Yellow (sulfide) is considered warm whereas Medium and Dark C. Yellows are Considered cooler against Lemon Yellow but a warm color as a stand alone.

Cadmium Red (Selenide) is considered the balance of warm to the cooler Alizarin Crimson. Cadmium, atomic number 48 on the periodic table is considered a toxic chemical. It occurs when Zinc is rendered in Oxygen and is in itself a result of chemcial “mitosis”. It is also the primary component of Cad-batteries. But I wouldn’t stick my tongue to it to see if its charged! The word is from the greek meaning vaginal rash… okay, no it doesn’t but that was funny!
Cadmium sports a woody for reflecting intense single frequencies of light. This highly selective, reflective property gives Cadmium some of the best punch in intensity of any pigment type. That’s it’s claim to fame.
In your reference to Chroma, I am assuming you mean the Munsell speculations which was surpassed by the Optical Society of America’s recommendations toward International Standards. In that regard, C. Yellow Light is approximately 10Y whereas C. Yellow deep is 5YR. Never could figure out what the resistence is to calling the damn thing Orange cause that be what it is!
“Hue” attempts to represent a Color and not a Chemical Property. Therefore, I would believe you would probably get a deeper value for the money in Color from a substitute BUT, the ability to single out the specific frequency of light (Cadmium is used for high powered lasers!) would not be part of the compromise. Most colors in the world produce harmonic resonance where “some” blue or “some” green is reflected with the other colors. Not so with Cadmium. INTENSITY!! Could you tell the difference? Yes, IF you were training to and knew all this bullcrap about Cadmium. Otherwise, it would look the same. Aw Red, pretty…
My humble take on it. Cadmium is highly toxic and the jury is out as to whether it is carcenogenic. I bet Playing with Mercury is about the same risk so please be mindful of where you stick your brush. I’m sure a man like you has many options.:D

Genius may take decades to recognize.

earnest_ward

Ok, so cadmium red light is a lighter value, more intense version of a similar hue? Is this somewhat accurate:
cadmium red light – light value, high chroma
cadmium red medium – darker value, somewhat lower chroma
cadmium red deep – darkest value, lower chroma, possibly hue shift towards crimson?

Is this similar for cadmium yellow? And by “hue” I had always assumed that it was a similar hue to cadmium red, but using different, non-toxic pigment. Or not pure pigment. Or something like that.

If hue is effectively the same as the real thing, I’d rather use that, ’cause I’m cheap :P

Be very careful when buying any paint with the word “hue” added to the pigment name. Read the label carefully for pigment content and lightfastness rating. Paints with the word “hue” added rarely contain the pigment labeled. (Instead it’s generally a blend of less expensive, and often fugitive colors.)

Fortunately, there are now several high quality, lightfast alternatives to buying “hues” and several online sourses of insightful information about pigments in general. (Check out websites such as Daniel Smith, Gamblin, W&N, and Liquitex for starters.)

Oh, one other thing. Artist’s Grade paints (more expensive) generally contain far more pigment (you use less, they last longer) than Student Grade (you use more to get the same boldness and have to buy more.) So buying cheap isn’t always that cheap.

Hope that helps.

"All good things come by Grace, and Grace comes by Art, and Art does not come easy." -- Norman Maclean

Mad Scientist

Cadmium pigments are very opaque. The term hue usually indicates an attempt to produce the same colour as the cadmium pigmentusing other combinations of pigments usually organic chemicals rather than metallic salts. When i moved from oils to acrylics I also switched to the synthetic hues. I found them very disappointing. They just did not mix right for me. I originally blamed this on the acrylic medium but after switching to the cadmium based pigments I am happy again. I suggest you buy some small tubes of each colout. Experiment with each and then choose what you like.

Einion

And by “hue” I had always assumed that it was a similar hue to cadmium red, but using different, non-toxic pigment. Or not pure pigment. Or something like that.

I was using hue as a colour term there, not a paint term; hue is one of the three dimensions of colour – hue, chroma, value (or hue, lightness, saturation/hue, brightness, saturation). Check the WC! glossary if you need the basic definitions.

Hue, in paint names, generally indicates the use of a replacement pigment, for reasons of lower cost, substitution for an old pigment that is unavailable or undesirable (e.g. fugitive), for chemical reasons (interacts with alkalis) or purely for toxicity reasons (e.g. genuine Naples Yellow).

Cadmium “Light” or “Lemon” Yellow (sulfide) is considered warm whereas Medium and Dark C. Yellows are Considered cooler against Lemon Yellow…

Other way around: if you think that way greener yellows are cool, yellows that are more orange are warm.

In your reference to Chroma, I am assuming you mean the Munsell speculations…

Chroma is not a speculation :rolleyes:

Einion

Einion

Cadmium metal and cadmium salts vary enormously in properties, it’s a grave mistake to equate one with the other. There is no better example of this than common table salt, made from two things you wouldn’t want to have around you in pure form – sodium and chlorine – but combine them and you have something essential to life

For the record toxicity of cadmium pigments is consistently overstated in books written for the layman (us). It’s important to remember that most of the warnings about care when dealing with pigments are geared towards people handling it in dry form, in bulk, and have no real bearing on common painting practice where it is neither dry nor is it in bulk. There are exceptions for people who airbrush or otherwise spray-apply their paints, and for pastellists.

Einion

LordScorpius

On what basis of authority established that “lay people” are told the toxicity is higher or … are you practicing creative visualization with words?

It is the other way around when it isn’t. As I said.

I framed speculation under a proper context. In is inappropriate to reallocate it.

Genius may take decades to recognize.

Heidi7Sue

Ok, so cadmium red light is a lighter value, more intense version of a similar hue? Is this somewhat accurate:
cadmium red light – light value, high chroma
cadmium red medium – darker value, somewhat lower chroma
cadmium red deep – darkest value, lower chroma, possibly hue shift towards crimson?

Not quite. The light, medium, and deep refer to hue, not value, so they all have a hue shift relative to each other. Here’s how it works:
Cad red light – what I’d call an orange-red
Cad red medium – your standard bright red. Think fire engines.
Cad red deep – darker, duller. Mine looks like what I’d call “brick”

Cad yellow light – rather greenish
Cad yellow medium – standard yellow, like dandelions
Cad yellow deep – tending toward orange

And by “hue” I had always assumed that it was a similar hue to cadmium red, but using different, non-toxic pigment. Or not pure pigment. Or something like that.

Or both. I’ve been using Liquitex BASICS, which are made with substitute pigments to keep them cheap, so they also have a lower pigment load. But I think I read somewhere that Tri-Art uses substitute pigments because of the toxicity of cadmium, so I would bet that their professional line has a good pigment load even in the “hues.”

BTW, I’ve been happy with the BASICS for my purposes. You might compare a tube of, say, Cad red light hue in the BASICS line with the real color in a professional line, and then you’d know what you think. Of course, that one tube of the good stuff will set you back more than $10. I feel your pain. Oh, and check out the product review section of WC! before you buy. I’ve found it to be very helpful.

Heidi

Einion

On what basis of authority established that “lay people” are told the toxicity is higher or … are you practicing creative visualization with words?

Please don’t fence with me, I’m not doing it to you which is why I didn’t direct my comments on this issue to you specifically.

Cadmium pigments are not that hazardous and pose no threat to the painter in normal use. The only common routes to exposure are inhalation and ingestion; we don’t eat paint, inhale pigment dusts or atomised particles in normal use and we don’t heat the paint. Anyone spray-applying cadmiums should be aware that they need to take appropriate precautions since modern labelling will almost all specifically say not to do that. And of course most of us don’t touch wet paints on a regular basis and if there were paint on our hands after working it’s common sense to wash it off before eating a sandwich. So even if cadmium pigments were a deadly poison how would it get into the body? Particularly in levels high enough to be dangerous?

But let’s not take my word for it by all means:

Animal studies have shown that cadmium pigments are potential carcinogens when inhaled, which is why they carry the warning, “do not spray apply”. [u]They are not believed to be toxic by ingestion if they are of low solubility[/u] as determined by laboratory testing. Over the years, pigment manufacturers have produced cadmium pigments of progressively lower solubility of both the cadmium and selenium in efforts to increase safety.

Cadmiums are considered mildly to moderately toxic (especially the reds, which also contain selenium) because they can cause poisoning sickness or cancer [u]if eaten or inhaled in large quantities[/u] as a pigment powder, sprayed paint, pastel residue, or fumes from heated pigment.

[LIST]
[*]The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has identified eight metals, or elements, that have the potential to be a health concern. Those are: arsenic, barium, cadmium, chromium, lead, mercury, selenium, and silver. These elements, the “RCRA 8,” are closely monitored by the agency. And some of them are found in pigments used in the manufacture of art materials.
[*]Once products containing those metals have been identified, the solubility of the metals within these products has to be measured. These elements pose a greater risk if it can be absorbed into the human system, or the environment. If it’s largely insoluble, then it poses far less concern. As a result, the EPA has identified certain solubility levels, below which the pigment or product is not considered to be hazardous waste. However, above this level, the product requires special disposal provisions.
[*]Solubility is tested through the “Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure” (TCLP). TCLP testing determines how much of a given metal goes into solution within a carefully monitored acidic environment
[/LIST]
…
Certification statements are available regarding the test results for cadmium pigments used in the manufacture of Soft Body and Heavy Body Artist Color ranges. The statements confirm that all cadmiums used in Liquitex® Professional Artist color ranges exhibit solubility well below the EPA limits.

Another way of looking at it is this: try to find cases of cadmium poisoning from artists’ paints. It’ll be a long search.

Einion